Health Bars that only show While Taking Damage

[Lucifer]

So! Recently-ish Rotem added blood to the game which I think is a cool addition, you can now actually tell if someone gets hit.

But, imagine you're dueling in the heat of the battle and there's blood all around - you can't really tell who's blood is who's so you have to check your HP.

Right now checking your HP requires you to take your eyes off the battle and that split second can cause you to die, right?

Well how about adding Health Bars that show above your character, like so:



(That'd be me if someone hit my health down to half-ish)

Now, I think these were suggested in the past but it was argued it'd be too obtrusive and annoying to see Health Bars all the time.

To remedy that I suggest only showing them when you take damage. So for instance, if you're battling and someone hits you - the health bar would show up so you (and everyone else) would be able to visually see approx how much health you have left without looking at your stats. But after 30 seconds of no action, it'd disappear again. This way you wouldn't have to sit in the Library and look at a bunch of random health bars.

At one point people also thought Nametags would be too obtrusive, but they turned out to just save time and make recognizing people easier. Healthbars should have the exact same effect.

[Rotem]

Murrawhip has added to the game personal health and MP bar right above the pink chat for this purpose.

Personally I like the precise number when dueling. I feel like we should have Health and MP display in on-screen text at the top left side of the screen, I think Murra chose to not do it like that because it'll obscure your upper left screen area. (Although modern RPGs and MMOs use this precise method)

I'm not really against this suggestion, I'm unsure whether the bar should go above the name or below the person though.
Another question I have is about layers, you'll notice name tag is above EVERYTHING, should health bar behave the same way or be another overlay.

I can probably use new BYOND features to make something smooth and pretty.
Do you know how in LoL when you get hit the HP impact is red then fades, we can do that too.
In thoughts of the future, we need to handpick the colors we use for this, let's say that if we want poison to show health will be colored green, thus green can't be the health's bar color. If someone wants to design mock up art, go ahead, this sort of add-on could definitely be made flashy, I don't need complete artwork for every health state, don't bother with that, just general design.

[Lucifer]

I honestly didn't even know that health & MP bar existed until now, so that's probably not a good thing! (Unless it's just me, then I suck but that's another story)

The precise amount on HP in stats is needed I agree, even if you had health bars people will continue to use it. A health bar would be ideal to see others health while dueling visually though, wouldn't it? Or spectating a duel? Sometimes it can be really hard to tell who's winning a duel while spectating because although it can look like someone is hit, they aren't. The health bars would make it completely transparent.

I don't think the current dueling ability "Scan" should be the thing that's needed for health bars. It'd be too vital of an update for some people to have and others not to, IMO. It's something that should be universal if it's added.

As for colors couldn't you just go with a simple green/red like my paint mockup? Keep it as simple and non obtrusive as possible. By poison are you referring to spells that slowly take away health or something? I don't think you need to visually display it as poison. It could just be Red - HP missing. Green - HP there. Only possible issue would be for those who are colorblind.

[Rotem]

I sort of wanted to have a cool graphic display like League's. Ya know me, I like it fancy but then again Google is considered to have a good design and it's so simple.

I liked the idea of Scan being used for this because it kills 2 birds with 1 stone, improves a spell and adds the bars.

As for where would health bar be useful... I think that it's a little unrealistic if just about anyone could see how much HP you have, the blood is good because you can do the math that they were damaged but you don't quite know how close you are to winning, intel is quite important, if you know someone has low hp you're going to jump in and try to get the kill, it may change the entire course of the fight.

I don't think I want to add health bars to monsters, right now monsters don't heal, you'd often bump monsters who don't actually have full HP and trust me, if monsters healed they'd rage Basilisk impossible to kill.

I must admit the thought that people will have intel of my hp is turning me a little off, I personally would love to deny anyone of that information, I'm unsure whether this is a big con or not.

[Lucifer]

It's a big change that's for sure, but I don't think the whole idea of denying someone of information adds any real value to the dueling scene. It just makes it more ambiguous. By making HP transparent it gives the dueler and their opponents more information (which can be checked anyways with the Scan ability, but it's just not effective while dueling).

Although I really don't think this thing should be an add on to Scan that can be only be learned once every few weeks or whatever. That'd go against the idea of transparency in dueling HP if only some people can see it. IMO it should be game wide for players or just not at all.

As for the realism part, that's true. TWC doesn't need to be realistic all the time. Nametags aren't realistic, this falls in line with the same benefits of nametags.

[Rotem]

Just a note about scan, it's blocked by occlumency hence right now in fighting noone can find your HP if you are not willing.

Quite honestly I like the dueling scene more 'ambiguous' as you call it but again, this is my personal preference so I'm not quite sure, when dueling I definitely use what we call mind games and a ton of other tactics, tricking your opponent is what makes dueling skill based.

I'm thinking about Chivalry or CS GO, in those games you can't really see someone else's HP but you can see their HP after you're dead to see how much damage you've done to them. On that note perhaps we can show that to players when they die, how close they were.

I like combat being skill based, anyone saying it isn't skill based is a dirty liar while I don't think the HP bar being visible to everyone makes it non skill based I do think it removes a large layer of 'mind games' from it. I often count my hits on people and try to see whether it's smart to go in for the killing hit or not, whether to risk getting hit...
I'd honestly need to hear more opinions of people who fight often to see what they think because I have my own personal preference but I can't go solely on that.

I might build health bars as a standalone for fun, it may come in handy for me on the future, after I do  that I might add it to TWC and get opinions and if it's bad remove it, that's my current stance on it, in any case.
It's because I can't accurately say whether it's a good or bad change that I'd want to try it, I'm also sure that even if I remove if from TWC the code itself won't go to waste as I'd have a use for it eventually.

[Massive]

well i like this idea and someone requested me to make a health bar for some reason i have no idea who but any how i shall just post a pic of it there's also i add an mp bar if need i can remove it and just keep the health bar with the background or without the background

http://gyazo.com/01c78049a50c21ccfba24724062161ba

[Rotem]

Lucifer and I have a difference of opinion regarding how much intel should the system provide you, I like secrecy while he likes to make everything transparent, on other areas I may eventually go with his way but I don't think here I will choose to go with health bars as it removes a layer from dueling. Mind games are important because it provides a skill layer for advanced tactics, in a game so simple as twc the more simple things are the less people have to do, I want to give them this place to grow.

It may be nice, it may be fancy but I think the cons outweigh the pros. It's true that if I wasn't a fighter and just a developer, if I wasn't actually involved in TWC gameplay, I would think it's a great idea but since I am involved and I have been for years, I see things differently.

There's also technical reasons, this change may complicate things, I really have no other way to sum this up other than "the cons outweigh the pros".

[Lucifer]

I still think the health bars would be cool but don't have the energy to debate them anymore ;d maybe in the future