TWC - 2015

[Severus]

Cba to reply to unintellectual replies so gonna quote stuff I've already queried.

Every year since 2005 players come and go yet were either consistent or increasing in numbers - and I talk regulars. You can pull any stat to say that TWC since the reboot has had increased numbers but it doesn't mean shit when you can't pull together above 6 players for a class

If TWC was still in improvement then where the fuck is the next set of players incoming? Why does every other player of my playing age and older complain of the same things? I'm in contact with several people who would be willing to play TWC under previous conditions.

[Zachie]

I'm going to go ahead and repeat what Kole said, because it's something that I also said in my post.

People don't play as much because they have lives, they have jobs, they have relationships, they're making families. TWC is, at the end of the day, just a game. What person is going to give up time with family for a game? You yourself aren't active as much as you claim to be.

[DuhCosmicApple]

If I may interject while I am not the most active player, I would like to note that from four years ago to now I have only seen things that make me happy. Sure I'm not that active but the thing TWC has right now, while I'm not saying I don't like the innovative ideas Azrael is suggesting, there is so much available currently that people choose not to perceive as fun. The forest isn't just there full of kill able AI monsters for a very moderate amount of gold. THERE IS AN RP ASPECT SO OPEN TO THIS GAME THAT MANY WILL REFUSE TO ACTUALLY TRY. Make your own events, RP with friends and make a little exploration gang, ask someone to be a villain.
There is so much room for creativity with what we already have and yet people see this game as very concrete and going one way only. There is so many things to do, and the many locations we have are not just for show.

Again, ideas are great, new stuff and thoughts are always exciting and I really appreciate EVERYBODY like Rotem who work hard to make sure we have a good time, but we don't always have to rely on new coding or icons to enjoy this game. A game so open to creativity shouldn't go to waste and only conform to desires of new features.

Edit: also, if you're not going to try and just say "TWC isn't fun anymore" and bullshit like that, you don't deserve anything new. This game is made with hard work and spitting on it isn't gonna make them want to give you everything you want.

[Severus]

@Chase I did make an edit in my previous post for you but you replied here so you can go back and read that which answers activity.

@Kole @Chase see below about people with lives. In addition to below, please explain the 11-21 year olds that I know who would be willing to play with change who didn't go inactive for personal commitments?

Cba to reply to unintellectual replies so gonna quote stuff I've already queried.

Every year since 2005 players come and go yet were either consistent or increasing in numbers - and I talk regulars. You can pull any stat to say that TWC since the reboot has had increased numbers but it doesn't mean shit when you can't pull together above 6 players for a class

If TWC was still in improvement then where the fuck is the next set of players incoming? Why does every other player of my playing age and older complain of the same things? I'm in contact with several people who would be willing to play TWC under previous conditions.

[Azrael]

The idea of the post is getting lost, the point was for me and anyone else to suggest things they'd like to see in TWC when 2015 comes around, kinda like a wishlist. I don't mind a little debate but I want to stay focused. What features will make the game more fun bu adding things players can do and interact with the world. I think features were taken out for a reason and it is understandable for people to want them back. I'd like to hear more feed back on things people want to see that are reasonable and weather or not the staff see's it as something they also like and can do(eventually).

Also changed the first post.

[Rotem]

So given all of the above, why has TWC rapidly deteriorated?

Because of people like you who spread false propaganda. Please provide me with proofs that show TWC deteriorated and that it has for the reasons you stated.

You keep making baseless accusations, did you know Spitfire practiced special classes that triumphed over anything I've ever done? No you didn't nor did you mention this. There's a fuck ton of shit you're not aware of yet you assume TWC is getting worse without any actual proof.

You say "You can pull any stat to say that TWC since the reboot has had increased numbers", however, wouldn't this mean I back up the bullshit I write? Wouldn't this mean you're just ignorantly sticking to your opinion without actually considering reality?

As for your wishlist Azrael, it's true we're getting lost, I feel as though while people thank me, they also blame me for everything bad that happens and also expect me to fix everything, I imagine this the insanity Murrawhip had to deal with for years, luckily this is open source and I can say "screw you guys, I'm going home." (Southpark reference).

I promise you this however, I will read all your ideas, sometimes a simple thought you had will merge into mine and this collection of ideas, from you and everyone else will eventually give birth to something new and wonderful, it wouldn't be just me, it'd be you as well and everyone else who feed me those good ideas. I'm a human being and I remember things people write. I do take my time reading every suggestion even ones written with shit English that make no sense.

To further explain why this is a sort of an attack against me, I'll pose one question, why did Serverus write this:

Ok, I'm going to be the one to finally politely challenge Rotem

Maybe you disagree with my ideas but if an idea has a flaw, you debate it and refine the idea until it reaches perfection as I have done for many ideas. Most of the things I plan to do are a collection of ideas gathered by myself, Murrawhip, Lucifer, Linshon and many others from this very suggestion board.

I named Lucifer because he was the one to think clans should become similar to WoW factions. Murra added that he'd want a decay so that inactives lose rank.

Linshon noted how he thinks automating classes is bad and thus I haven't pushed further until I get more feedback and know how to truly make something awesome that won't just be us providing painkillers to one pain. We want true solutions, not painkillers.

If you think I'm designing anything like a politician with the thought of only gaining fans and silencing complaints, you're dead wrong. So why is it that I'm being challenged, did I do something wrong? Maybe it's my language barrier but to me it sounds like I'm in the extreme wrong and I should be focusing on something else, something else TWC lacks. As your post continues, you claim we've made steps backwards and not forward, that isn't polite in the slightest, that is a bold accusation I am the cause for the deterioration even though I myself had nothing to do with most of those facts you've pointed out.

And then there's this.

Cba to reply to unintellectual replies so gonna quote stuff I've already queried.

Every year since 2005 players come and go yet were either consistent or increasing in numbers - and I talk regulars. You can pull any stat to say that TWC since the reboot has had increased numbers but it doesn't mean shit when you can't pull together above 6 players for a class

If TWC was still in improvement then where the fuck is the next set of players incoming? Why does every other player of my playing age and older complain of the same things? I'm in contact with several people who would be willing to play TWC under previous conditions.

This... This right here proves everything I wrote in my first reply to you, it proves you have a biased opinion, it proves you have no real facts, stats, proofs, anything to back it up. Just a collection of displeased players who want to be able to kill in safe zones. Do you not see how much you're like them? "Yea, TWC sucks, it isnt' fun anymore, you used to be able to kill in school and shit, the map was bigger and stuff, it had a lot more open grass field of nothingness. There were also prefects who sat there all day long doing nothing at all and having colored names, isn't it wonderful?"

We change things for a reason, you are being extremely ignorant and arrogant, ignoring our reasons and thinking you know everything and can do better on your own. Maybe this is why you get replies like "If you're some high and mighty god and have all the answers".

I couldn't have put it any more blunt than he did, I understand you have thought about this for awhile and developed this amazing theory that TWC is dying because x y z. Now I'm here to tell you, everything has a birth and everything has a death, in the end oblivion can not be avoided. Do you think in a million years anyone is going to care? No, they won't.

This is why I spend my time doing what I can for the present not regretting safe zones, level cap, stat points or any change I made to TWC. If the players disagree, they can now take the open source and run their version (as long as they abide by the license which isn't really that harsh). If players enjoy the changes I do make, yay. If not, they don't have to endure. It's their choice as it is mine to spend my free time donating to this community. And anything that even sounds remotely like this: "I'm in contact with several people who would be willing to play TWC under previous conditions." can meet this reponse:

Edit: also, if you're not going to try and just say "TWC isn't fun anymore" and bullshit like that, you don't deserve anything new. This game is made with hard work and spitting on it isn't gonna make them want to give you everything you want.

[Skystone]

I hate to go off topic with Azrael's ideas, but perhaps I can help with this debate.

Right now, I feel that Rotem is putting in a lot of work for the right areas of TWC that's needed, the new players. I can understand why some are not satisfied, as I can feel it too.

There just doesn't seem to be the same hype as before where we had the all-stars of TWC in clans which made the rivalry very very intense. Severus may be onto something in that perhaps it was stat points and the ability to be better just by putting in time that made people feel the hype and compete to be better than one another. Unfortunately, I agree that this was very flawed as there would be no equal PvP which is standard in almost every game. What we have to come up with is a new incentive.

Back in 2012, my main incentive was at first, just like any new player; have fun, learn spells, make friends, and do every quest possible. Later on however, it became about getting into the PvP action/clans as that's where all the pro players were at. So, I worked hard at increasing my dueling abilities and leveling up as fast as I could in order to get into the Aurors. Eventually I did. This is where my incentives began to change again and I wanted to be a better Auror and duelist as a whole. So I "stat trained", so I could get better stats in order to compete with some of the other elites.

It's always been the journey, not the destination. That's what TWC is about. Unfortunately, the incentives at the endgame of TWC are nonexistent. The journey has been cut as already you have reached the destination. You are a level 600 like everyone else, with the same spells, with nothing to do but get gold, RP, hoard items, and participate in events.

At least, that's what it feels like during the winter/fall and probably the spring season.

I know the new players don't feel like that as they still have incentives to get further into the game.

What we have to come up with is a way so that TWC's endgame has an incentive that will be everlasting.

One idea that comes to mind is potion making. There could be a number of combinations to make potions that could be secrets. Sure they may leak, but there could be better versions/hidden techniques that will change a potion completely if it was made.

Now obviously potion making isn't the same as dueling, but it still makes something for endgame players to do and experiment. If you keep players in TWC long enough ACTUALLY doing something, then you'll most likely have a reaction with increased activity everywhere else. At least that's my theory.

[Severus]

"Because of people like you who spread false propoganda". If this is your answer to "why has TWC deteriorated", then there must be lots of us spreading "false propoganda" for it to effect an entire games player growth. Maybe it's not so false?

In relation to Spitfife's event/class. At no point have I insulted or expressed distaste in features added to TWC, in fact I have always stuck by them. My post points out why we don't have players to attend this new stuff. In my post I addressed removal of key features which were never replaced. Sure we can have all this automatic bullshit and fancy ass detail but there's no point without fundamental game motivators which actually get people to play by themselves when these new features aren't taking place.

In terms of blaming you for this, I tried aiming the post at the dev team more than you. I challenged you on it because in the post previous you said /you/ were bringing in the vision of automating stuff which set me off. There was more than a flaw in the idea but a flaw in direction of the game, I truly feel like the game whilst had tighter and absolutely more detailed features, it does nothing for players to play when this isnt about. My post debates that exactly. Usually suggestion board debates and ideas are seen through anyway.

The quote RE: cba with replying to unintellectual replies. I refuse to respond to areas I had already covered and queried because that shows a ridiculous amount of ignorance and short sightedness. I ask where TWC new flux of players are and ask why people who are still able to play and decide not
to, I get the answer that "People have lives now..." Wait, what? That answer doesn't make any fucking sense. I talk new players and current ones, not old ones clearly. Wtf? Saying people have lives is almost an escape route to satisfy your own side. If you wanna throw a bullshit statement like that against a purposeful question I ask, prepare to be thrown off.

I don't have all the answers and never claimed to. I simply made four points on what we used to do which had TWC active and what we currently do- and now TWC is not active. Comparing data is not fuckin rocket science.

I queried a bunch of shit and still half goes unanswered. I know that things were removed for reasons and never did I need to question it until now. Now, where I see a direction you propose that I feel achieves nothing.

The aim should be how the fuck can we keep players long term. What did we do before that kept players? I reminded you. We removed the old stuff for a reason. What's the alternative replacement?

[Linshon]

I haven't read much of anything, I literally am about 2 lines into Severus's first post but I would just like to say that I am not looking forward to reading the rest of it just on the sole fact that your opening argument's point is connecting the lack of player population with the fact that stat points were removed. A VERY VERY VERY small portion of active players actually gave a shit about stat points. Seriously how many of you actually hardcore grinded in silverblood in order to get stat points? Maybe 15? At that point in time that'd be like what, maybe 1/4th the given userbase at any time? Like I said, I haven't read much of it at all yet but I do plan to read the rest and I hope it switches seriously quick because stat points are not the reason behind player population decreasing.

First edit:

Now I may just be a lowly GM to you and basically the one that nobody ever listens to

I don't ever want to see you say that again because as someone who was reading through all of this information, you instantly just lost my interest in reading what you had to say because you just told me everyone ignores you anyway. I hope that it was just some passive aggressive sarcasm toward something Sev had previously said or something and not words you back up.

Edit 2:

I'm in contact with several people who would be willing to play TWC under previous conditions.

Yea, they can say that all they want but they would come back for a week or a month at a time and then disappear again. This has happened time after time after time on TWC despite whatever the current condition versus previous conditions were. It's been done in the past and has failed as well. It's the nostalgia effect essentially.

Edit 3:

Maybe you disagree with my ideas but if an idea has a flaw, you debate it and refine the idea until it reaches perfection as I have done for many ideas. Most of the things I plan to do are a collection of ideas gathered by myself, Murrawhip, Lucifer, Linshon and many others from this very suggestion board.

Linshon noted how he thinks automating classes is bad and thus I haven't pushed further until I get more feedback and know how to truly make something awesome that won't just be us providing painkillers to one pain. We want true solutions, not painkillers.

This is a one of the huge problems of TWC with the suggestions that people make and I don't think this has been addressed enough. Time after time again I hear people complain that their suggestion got shot down by someone or something like that. I'm not gonna argue that suggestions aren't turned away a lot of the time, they are from my experience with TWC. I have personally read over peoples suggestions before and thought to myself "Wow, that's so stupid." and I will admit that because I don't care for the sugar coating. Here is the thing though, every single idea can be improved on and people don't seem to realize it. Here is an example. I specifically picked this one out because you were the one that suggested it Sev. http://forum.wizardschronicles.com/index.php?topic=2824.0

This was around the time that I was still headmaster I believe. Topic created June 7th. Last reply June 10th. Duel Instruction wasn't a bad idea. It was a problematic idea that needed to be examined further and because not everyone saw things your way and because there was disagreement and discussion about the problem guess what? Nothing ever came out of it after 3 days. I made an extensive list of all the possible GM's I could remember for Rotom to update the museum with it. Never happened. Hell when we were bringing back TWC we had a huge and extensive list of plans, and as you pointed out the level cap content lacks severely, never got finished. This is a problem in the creative process. Ideas get thrown out there and for one reason or another, instead of people doing what you are supposed to do (exactly what rotom suggested, refinement into making the idea as unflawed as possible (not perfect because every idea has room to be improved on)). Stop giving up on your guy's fucking ideas after 3 days of people giving you feedback, pointing out problems or their own disagreements and maybe some of these ideas would be put in. We are all guilty of it sure but how many times have you come up with an idea and after a few days you say fuck it and stop working? That's a huge problem because I already know the answer.

Generally, this applies to everyone who is reading this, when you post something in the suggestion form start naming the suggestion V.1, V.12, V.13 something or another where you post the idea, you get feedback and ideas from people and you then take that, revise your idea to include or exclude information or suggestions (and if you exclude something have a reason for it besides something stupid like "UH that was a good point and all, but if I do that then I can't do it my way so fuck it). When you are done doing that bring the suggestion back to the forums and bring it up to people to revise it again. I bet you instantly get less criticism and the idea overall has likely improved. Im serious, do this please and watch the results. An idea isn't finished until no one has anything else to say on the matter and if they do and they don't speak up that's their fault and have no room to complain regardless. I agree with the last part Rotom says though, you don't want an addiction to painkillers to solve long-term issues. If you absolutely have to have one because it is unavoidable and will break the game if you don't use something to numb it for a second then go ahead but while doing that find a solution to the problem that won't cause other problems (and if it will, make sure you think of those ahead of time in planning your idea).

Edit 4:

I don't have all the answers and never claimed to. I simply made four points on what we used to do which had TWC active and what we currently do- and now TWC is not active. Comparing data is not fuckin rocket science.

Cut this bullshit out. Every single post you make you always claim something scientific like this. "Look at the data." "Fact ##" "Exhibit" "Stat This". Cut that "my information is reliable scientific data" bullshit because repeatedly claiming your information is something it's not doesn't sit there and make your argument stronger it just makes you look like you have a superiority complex and are looking to make your shit look better. Nothing you presented is data, statistical, or an exhibit. Sure, some of it probably is factual but none of it is fucking data nor have you brought anything into this whole ordeal that remotely resembles data or statistics in any way shape or form. Your whole arguments and points in general aren't a problem and I don't necessarily disagree with all of them or agree with any of them, but you can't keep doing that kind of manipulative bullshit that you think people are going to give you credibility because you throw around math, science and law terms.

Edit 5:

The aim should be how the fuck can we keep players long term. What did we do before that kept players? I reminded you. We removed the old stuff for a reason. What's the alternative replacement?

I 100% agree with 50% of these words.

The aim should be how the fuck we can keep players long term. What did we do before that kept players? I reminded you. We removed the old stuff for a reason. What's the alternative replacement?

Why complicate it? Leave it right there and write it on the blackboard 1,000 times.

Player retention and transitioning a player from a new player to a active current player is how TWC is going to succeed. How do you do that?

Forget about what is and isn't in the game, forget about what is cut from the game, forget all your old theories on how being nice to new players makes them stay or being helpful makes them want to play more (I am sure it helps some people but in the end it's not a big enough driving factor to give any reasonable amount of player retention, however, on the opposite of this if you look at people being dickheads to new players then I am sure they will find a reason not to come back).

[Severus]

@Linshon, before I begin. Damn Lin you just slapped us in the mouth with the truth like always. You know I hella respect you for that shit. Ok lemme get to it.

"Your opening arguments point is connecting the lack of player population with the fact that stat points were removed."
Don't get this twisted. What I said was that stat points were a continuous form of player motivation, it made you the strongest, it was unique to the player. It didnt require an entire event or a GM. It was there to farm as and when you liked. TWC never replaced this type of feature. Which is a reason players go static, afk or inactive? I bet so.

Then how to keep players long term?
Discuss.

[DuhCosmicApple]

... And moving onto my response to Azrael's suggestions, I think they are all lovely and creative ideas, however I don't know how to feel about NPC teachers considering there is such a trademark of interacting with a real person and learning. Unless you mean they're just fun NPCs to interact with that give shout outs like "Dear me! Don't tell Professor Spitfire, but his Mudkip's odor is spreading throughout the school!" And are just interactive. Other than that I really like this creativity but let's also see what we can to about the current things we have too! thanks for all the great ideas

[Rotem]

I can not make hidden secrets within a open sourced game.

EDIT: I can not make hidden secrets within a open sourced game without hiding vital information of the system which in turn harms any solo servers. A "recipe" script file can be made and placed on server for secrecy but I'd rather just go back to my original claim.

[Spitfire]

I'm not much one for the past stat points being unlimited and uncapped leveling but, what if we had pets, and we could train them, duel with them against other pets and what not, and let them be unlimited to stat points, leveling, what not, lol. Maybe give them a set amount of lives before they get reset or something, ok maybe that's too pokemonish for TWC lol. I'm just thinking if we had like a pet elemental or dragon and trained them and went to a area where players could vs other playerrs pets with their pet and put money or items towards it for winning.

[Rotem]

this is my wish for 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyXTgqJtoGM

[Spitfire]

Another idea which sorta goes with the economy thing Sev was talking about and a way to not necessarily fix it but could help a bit, which can also tie into my not pokemon pet idea is, like I mentioned about using gold and items as the prize during a pet battle, or as if that was how you initiate it as a option, what if we do a csgo type thing, where how we have lots of those common, well now common items right, and we can do a 'trade-up contract' say you put 5 commons on the table vs someone who has say 1 sorta rare item, or he puts up gold or whatever he feels right, you win those 5 commons and had another 5 commons in your vault, you use the trade-up contract that requires 10 of them and you get back an item that is deemed better than the previous ones, usually up one scale for csgo, we don't necessarily have rarity set, but yeah. Just an idea lol.

Sorry for my non structure, I see people put work into their suggestions and I do love seeing it, but i'm basically just throwing out things that i'm thinking straight away before I forget, if someone wants to add onto these ideas, question them, what not, and wishes to rewrite a more structured version for ease of viewing, please do!