So, I've been hearing over OOC people wanting Dementors back for awhile now.
But how should Dementors be?
In the Harry Potter series, Dementors are immortal, they can't be killed by Glacius or any other projectile.
Expecto Patronum would only repel them.
Dementors were controlled by the Ministry although Dementors hold no true loyalty, except to whomever can provide them with the most people to feed off which is why at the end Dementors supported Voldemort.
So there's the following issues:
- Location. Where would Dementors be? What area will they spawn at?
The Graveyard isn't really a proper place, right now the Ministry is in control and they won't let Dementors roam free. Even if Dementors won't be controlled, their immortal presence inside the Graveyard is pointless, they can't be killed, they'll basically sit there without any purpose.
- Fighting and/or Repelling.
Dementors can't be killed by any spell (Attack projectiles, Charms etc.), they're immortal, how can you fight an immortal foe?
Currently, Expecto Patronum simply makes all the Dementors in your view disappear, that's boring, I'd expect the immortal beings to be more of a challenge, something more fun.
I'd also say that not every wizard is skilled enough to instantly repel dementor, most wizards won't even be able to use Expecto Patronum properly against one Dementor (Expecto Patronum also doesn't give EXP or Gold).
On the other side of the coin, how would Dementor fight players/humans? Will he bite them like any other monster?
Dementors were sucking souls! I'd be lame to be knocked out back to Hospital Wing after meeting a Dementor.
- Purpose.
While Monsters roam free without thought, Dementors actually worked with humans.
Even if location is found, they probably wouldn't be hostile for everyone and won't behave like other monsters.
Those sure are some nasty issues but how do we solve them? Simple! We figure out how Dementors should be like and they'll be re-added.
Reply to this topic with your thoughts, as detailed as possible.
Perhaps together we can figure it out and have a new fun feature added to TWC.
This may be a bit hard to do but maybe put in a Askaban area with Dementors, maybe make a new spell that can kill them (and in classes maybe say that its a new spell or something) also if you get killed by one have it say "The Dementor sucked out your soul" then maybe you go into a spirit world and have to find your way back?
Quote from: Skitz on April 01, 2012, 09:21:12 AM
maybe make a new spell that can kill them (and in classes maybe say that its a new spell or something)
Why?
Technically it was never said they were Immortal. Just that a bunch of pansie assed school kids couldn't kill them.
Even if it did though, it's not like the game is restricted to be based wholly on 'fact'. I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to use normal spells to kill them, but if you have a problem with that you could say that it just 'repels' them untill the point in which they respawn.
Mayhaps the Head Death Eater should be able to send them to suddenly attack Hogwarts. Which would make 30 or so spawn outside Hogwarts with each one respawning 3 times.
You'd of course have to Limit that, so that the HDE didn't use it too often. School is supposed to be mostly safe.
I think at any rate they should be made stronger though. I think they should do a set amount of Damage uneffected by defence. Like 1000 or so. That way it would be more dangerous to lower players, and still a threat to Higher leveled players.
I'm just addressing one part of your post.
Quote from: Ezekiel Fenix on April 01, 2012, 03:33:41 PM
Technically it was never said they were Immortal. Just that a bunch of pansie assed school kids couldn't kill them.
"
You cannot destroy Dementors, though you can limit their numbers if you eradicate the conditions in which they multiply, ie, despair and degradation." J.K. Rowling interview from Mugglenet. (http://www.mugglenet.com/jkr/interviews/dh-webchat.shtml)
You can't add material after a series is over an expect it to be Cannon.
JK Rowling has no control over whats true and whats not until she writes another book.
Quote from: Murrawhip on April 01, 2012, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Skitz on April 01, 2012, 09:21:12 AM
maybe make a new spell that can kill them (and in classes maybe say that its a new spell or something)
Why?
Because the topic was in suggestions so i put in mine?
Quote from: Skitz on April 02, 2012, 08:11:45 PM
Because the topic was in suggestions so i put in mine?
My question is "Why?" because, what's the advantage in simply adding another spell to do what Expecto does? That's not the problem we're trying to solve. Reread Rotem's post.
Quote from: Rotem on April 01, 2012, 02:51:07 AM
- Fighting and/or Repelling.
Dementors can't be killed by any spell (Attack projectiles, Charms etc.), they're immortal, how can you fight an immortal foe?
Currently, Expecto Patronum simply makes all the Dementors in your view disappear, that's boring, I'd expect the immortal beings to be more of a challenge, something more fun.
Expecto simply makes Dementors Disappear, my suggestion is make a projectile spell to kill them.
Yes but they could be killed with normal projectiles if that was what we wanted.
The problem is WE DON'T WANT Dementors to be killed like that.
They're immortal, adding another projectile just for Dementors seems pointless.
Perhaps the effects of the spell could be changed to make it more realistic.
Expecto Patronum
MP Usage: 500 MP per second
Class: DADA/Charms, GCOM
New Overlay Icon: E-mail me if you need it.
Idea:
1. Lets you cast a bright blast of light that only lasts for a small amount of time, depending on your MP. (Your MP would drain as the spell is in effect) Instead of killing or making the Dementors disappear, it would simply repel or push back every Dementor within a "certain range" of you, as you walk around. Perhaps, like Arania Exumai, there could be an overlay for the Dementors to indicate that they are being repelled or blocked from you.
2.Lets you cast a shield of light that only lasts while your MP does. Any Dementors trying to get to you would feed off of it. However, the shield can only protect you in the direction you cast it in. As you move north, east, south, etc. the shield would only stay in the direction you face. So Dementors could still get to you from different directions. (As you move closer to Dementors, they would get pushed back if the shield hits them)
3. Patronus: Besides the regular Expecto Patronum form, perhaps the ability to conjure a patronus could be an additional skill. Just like summoning a Snake or a Bird, you'd be able to say, "Expecto Patronum!" and your patronus creature would be conjured. There could be commands for the patronus such as Follow, Go To, Send Message, etc. While they are around you they would repel any Dementor that they run into by pushing them back a tile or two. This type of skill could probably be more rare to earn like Animagus/Apparition, where you can win it and pick a patronus or something. (You cannot cast Expecto Patronum & conjure a patronus at the same time) Your patronus would only last for a certain amount of time, depending on your MP. (It would also drain your MP while it is conjured) Conjuring patronuses would have a cooltime, so it can't be spammed or used excessively.
I really like where Dsc is going with this, I'm curious as to what Murra, Ander and everyone thinks about this. Does anyone want to expand off this or add suggestions to his opinion?
I only have one problem with Dscu's suggestion.
If we go by Dscu's suggestion, Dementors will basically be feared, immortal, can only be pushed back yet you will always have to run away.
Some people will hate the fact nothing can be gained from them and that they can't be fully repelled.
Yet the issue of location still remains.
Perhaps have them randomly appear on roads?
Like an event where Dementors suddenly decide to raid to feast on travelers.
Quote from: Rotem on April 08, 2012, 04:46:11 AM
I only have one problem with Dscu's suggestion.
If we go by Dscu's suggestion, Dementors will basically be feared, immortal, can only be pushed back yet you will always have to run away.
Some people will hate the fact nothing can be gained from them and that they can't be fully repelled.
Well it makes sense looking at the books. Taken from the HP Wikia:
"A Patronus is a kind of positive force, and for the wizard who can conjure one, it works something like a shield, with the Dementor feeding on it, rather than him....
No one has ever demonstrated the ability to kill a dementor, implying that they can not be killed through physical means, but can only be driven away or temporarily kept at bay."
Dementors are already dead, so it doesn't make sense to "kill" them again.
Dementors feed off hate, so maybe if you try to fire anything but Expecto at them (Glacius, other projectiles) they become even stronger. So each individual dementor could become stronger and stronger.
Maybe Expecto could be learned in class but become stronger over many uses against different dementors. So it could start out you'd have to face in a direction to use it, and it'd only go 5-6 spaces. On the other end eventually get to a point where you press Expecto and it fires in all directions for the entire length of the screen, like a small circle of white getting bigger until it's out of your screen. The most powerful expecto will maybe cause the Dementors to teleport to some other part of the map far away rather than just be pushed back.
Just a few thoughts.
Quote from: Rotem on April 01, 2012, 02:51:07 AM
- Fighting and/or Repelling.
Dementors can't be killed by any spell (Attack projectiles, Charms etc.), they're immortal, how can you fight an immortal foe?
Currently, Expecto Patronum simply makes all the Dementors in your view disappear, that's boring, I'd expect the immortal beings to be more of a challenge, something more fun.
^Isn't that what you wanted, for them to be immortal and feared (as opposed to like a Pixie that can just be 1 hit killed, and unable to attack you)? It's more realistic because in the books/movies, nobody could just go up to Dementors and just kill them with attacking spells. Like you said, Dementors were controlled by the Ministry, etc. Perhaps Dementors' locations could be changed by higher GMs depending on whatever they want, etc. (For events, regular, etc.)
- Maybe they could be put in Hogwarts or outside it during school raids for protection against dark wizards.
- Maybe they could be randomly sent in different locations such as the Forbidden Forest, Silverblood, Crossroads, etc.
- Maybe dark wizards could get ahold of the control of Dementors like in the end of the books/movies.
I just pictured myself shooting flippendo at dementors pushing them back, seemed kinda lame.
I like what Lucifer wrote though.
Feedback to Dementors: I liked them. But, as already mentioned, they should be super strong so players are feared of them. Then there's a question what to do with them, if you can't gain exp cause they can't be killed.
But what about this, so atleast clan wars get a bit cooler? When killed, you get into Azkaban (or DE prison) and need to break out via fightigin dementors and stuff.
That wouldn't be realistic for Aurors though.
It might be realistic for Aurors as the Dementors aren't always on one side, they have actually been on the good and evil side.
Dsc has had the best idea in my opinion. Everything he's said is flawless in my eyes, maybe that's why i don't make games though. i would add that it would be a Skill, like scan and sence, i find that having a tab for just two skills is pointless, maybe that could be added. Also the tab 'Flying' could be made as a skill.
skill - Patronus Charm - takes a certain amount of MP to cast, and then drains a certain amount of MP for every use/second after.
Dementors to be more powerful, with a set damage for example 1/10 of your hp, no matter who it is, im not sure how you'd apply that, but im sure you could. this means they would be feared by everyone as 10 hits and they are dead, or worse there soul could be sucked and i really have no idea where to go with the idea after that.
The location shouldn't be one permanent location, unless Azkaban is bought back, but i don't know why you'd even need Azkaban. The dementors alignment either good or bad could be based upon how well the DE/Aurors are doing at the time, giving each Auror/DE the ability to conjure one, based on their rank. Example, a HA/HDE can summon 5, on the Aurors side, to fight anyone wearing DE robes, and the Co-heads can summon 3 etc.
Just my opinion, sounds cool though, good luck!
Dementors quite rightfully should not just be 'killed' by projectiles and a simple 'Expecto Patronum' like there is right now - they should not be killed as previously mentioned they are already dead. Repelling them or keeping them at bay is the only way forward. The maximum repel (see next paragraph for my suggestion for levels of repel) could just force them to 'teleport' to their spawn location where as other levels of repel could just force them in the direction of their spawn location; this location could be the entrance to Silverblood - not the 'tunnels' - I mean the part with the fire bats and fire golems, though, the dementors could be restricted to a certain area in there for example northwest of the interior. Other areas could be behind the museum where they are restricted there in open space like the system for trolls. Behind the museum may also make more sense because you can relate history/past with death/previous life.
The modification of the existing spell 'Expecto Patronum' and all of it's properties to repel dementors as a pose to 'killing' them is a good idea; the MP should change such as Dsc's idea along with the subject it's taught under and the addition of a personal patronus - however, Lucifer's idea could be implemented here to improve it again, with the idea that the power of the repel and the size of the light should change according to which player uses it. The player, regardless of level, can increase the strength of their 'Expecto Patronum' with perhaps a new base stat, an existing one or other system. To gain a 'Patronus' they must reach a certain amount of 'stat'; when this stat is reached, perhaps a 'pop up window' could appear allowing them to choose from, say, 5 or 6 default patronus'... furthermore this could be upgraded to a personalized/rare extra one in very rare events that could occur once per year (or less frequent) - just like earning an Anamagus. The existing spell for 'Expecto Patronum' for all students who possess it would be removed completely and the new one would have to be re-taught in classes. This could be a skill or spell.
Dementor raids would also be cool and perhaps could be a rare tool/skill (such as apparition, anamagus, etc) instead of completely removing the spell 'Dementia'. 'Dementia' again could be upgraded so that you can control the existing flock of dementors from the locations I mentioned in my first paragraph or summon a flock of dementors that you have to lead - either to defend or to attack. Perhaps you could highlight a certain area of squares with your cursor/arrow keys that you wish the dementors to occupy; this could be tactical to the player as they can send dementors there to attack players already in that area or attack players who attempt to go in the area. In game play, an Auror could use this to highlight the area between the crossroads and Hogwarts entrance to protect students and deter DE's, where as a DE could use it in another place perhaps closer to the entrance or other to attack students/Aurors. If there is a new base stat made for Expecto (see paragraph 2) then this could also affect Dementia; the higher the stat, you could have the control (via pop up window for example) as to whether dementors attack or defend; the default would be just a flock of dementors who deal damage to players say within 1 or 2 squares of the dementor. However, this could not be taught, but instead a rare skill that requires high MP and stat to use.
Both of these ideas work for light/dark wizards. These ideas obviously can be edited to fit better or whatever - that's just me passing on an idea. I'm sure there's a flaw in it somewhere, lol.
Well, i understand they need to be immortal, so rather than aming them a one hit ko, why no make it so, the first time you come into contact with them, your screen goes blury and misty, the second time (within the same minute f the first contact) your movement goes weired and its random whenre they go so left could be down up could be left etc. the third time they hit you, you screen goes black, and you get a message saying, "Your soul was sucked out by the dementor, the last thing you remeber was a bright light..." and you also dont gain a death for this happening.